Intrepid Murmurings

Hey all! This blog has moved, woohoo!   Come join me to the new Intrepid Murmurings at www.intrepidmurmurings.com to see a brand new photos of a recent family visit to the park, and so much more to come! I am still (endlessly!) tweaking things, but all my old posts and comments transfered great and I've been having fun getting settled and figuring it all out.  

Be sure to resubscribe to the Intrepid Murmurings RSS feed, too, to follow me in a reader (unless you were already following via my feedburner feed)! I don't want to lose you, those who have been with me for years as well as newer followers -- please stay in touch! 

Hey, I have a Wordpress blog!  Intrepid Murmurings 2.0 was born this evening at 8 something PM, and mama, papa and child are doing well.  All my old posts and comments, and any photos that survived last weeks debacle imported successfully thanks to the wizardry of my hubs, woo hoo! This baby is still not ready for visitors, though, but hang tight -- once we work out the kinks and get her all dressed up I'll let y'all know.   Soon, I hope! 

In the meantime, I have two posts running elsewhere!  A brand spankin' new one about my breastfeeding story -- When Nursing Is Not Enough (part one of two!) on the Natural Parents Network, and a rerun of one of my favorites, 5 Reasons To Not Call My Girls "The Twins" over on the Multiples and More Blog.  Thank you, thank you, to both excellent sites for allowing me to share my story and thoughts.  And hello and welcome to any new readers coming my way!  Things are in transition here, but please look around and come back again, soon!  

As of yesterday I am on a blog haitus while I transition this blog to new blogging software, but you can still find me over at the Natural Parents Network!  Have you checked it out yet?  Do it!  They have an amazing lineup of great bloggers writing about all aspects of natural parenting, and I am honored to be a contributor. 

Today NPN is running my post on Toddler and Preschooler Activity Bag Fun.  I loooooooove these easy-to-make activities in a bag -- great for travel, for breaking up the day at home, to entertain big brothers or sisters while Mama nurses the baby(s!), etc.  The novelty factor with these bags, and how easy and self-contained they were, made them work great for us, especially when Emma was a toddler.   These can be made for any age or ability level, though -- I remember doing things very similar to it when I used to teach kindergarten and first grade!   If you can find a group of like-minded parents, doing a group swap is an easy and fun way to get a whole bunch, with minimal effort.  Go check out the ones I did, then follow links at the bottom to find more fabulous ideas -- there are a TON of them out there!  I am actually itching to do some more, soonish....

So, sometime Wednesday night, I made a major technical blogging blunder. I don't exactly remember doing it, though I know when it probably occurred, as I remember the system hanging for a bit, me not knowing why. Ha. Now I do. I consider myself fairly competent with technology, the internet, and blogging, but my understanding only goes so far, and this time, my naivety about the inner workings of our current software totally screwed me.  Wah wah wah....  

What I did was mess with the settings of our online photo gallery, regenerating the album where all our family photos are kept. I meant to just change some sizes on one sub-album so it would post right on my blog -- but really had no clue I was messing with fire here.  It finally dawned on me yesterday that this was the reason my photo links would sometimes break, but by then, it was too late. What I did broke most of the links to the last two plus years of photos posted on my blog. Years of extremely photo-heavy posts, I might add, now mostly unviewable!  Hang on while I go scream into a pillow for another moment.

Okay.  Now then.  

I have been wanting for a long time to change some things on my blog, mainly, the software that it runs on.  I currently use an old version of Roller, which is an open source blogging software.  It was great back in 2004, when Lonnie was first setting up our own in-home server and domain name. He made this blog for me, which was outside the very few, fairly constraining, boring options commercially available at the time.  It was cool because it was highly customizable - he could go in and change anything, no restraints, yada yada yada.  And it was free -- at a time when many of the other blog hosting companies charged for the cool options. At this same time, he set up our photo gallery, so we could manage our own photos online.  

Since then, well, blogging (and online photo storage) has come a long way, baby!  And the options out there are SO different, varied, and awesome. Lately, I have been longing for many of the features I see out there now, particularly an efficient, user-friendly blog editor that does not spew insane code that I have to wade through, cluelessly, again and again.  And a way to add lots of photos easily, without resorting to this hack-y way I have been using, which in the end, got me good.  

There have been updates to Roller that we have not upgraded to, because that in itself was a chore to large to tackle -- and impossible for me to do on my own.  This is software for a techie, not me! A past upgrade, many years ago, rendered many of my early posts totally unformatted, which sucked (many from the early days are still like that, though I've redone some here and there when I refer back to them).   Time is precious around here, and Lonnie, understandably, doesn't have the time or interest to muck around with all this anymore. It has been a sore spot for awhile, I am afraid. It's time I cut loose from my admin, much as I love him!!!  

Unfortunately, migrating a blog from Roller to a different blogging platform (Wordpress) is not simple.  Lonnie has already hacked the code to get it to transfer more than the 30 posts it allows (currently, I have 609!  Yipes!) but still has work to do to make the change.  Until that happens, I won't be putting any more time into the current version of this blog -- don't want to just have to redo everything again!  Once we are settled I'll go back and fix some of the lost photos & formatting on the old posts there, as this serves both as a baby book, a journal, a collection of thoughts for later publication, hopefully a resource for others out there, and most of all, a creative and social outlet for me while in the trenches of parenting and life. 

So, hang tight, Intrepid Murmuring fans!  I love you guys, and will be back in a bit!  It may be a few weeks, I am thinking, before the changes are complete and we are up and running again. This blog will not go anywhere, for the time being, but stay tuned for info on the new digs -- including, I assume, a new web address and RSS feed to subscribe to.  

Also, if you want to stay in the know, feel free to follow me on The Intrepid Murmurings Facebook Page, and on Twitter...

At Emma's preschool drop-off the other day, Elsie and Delia walked right past a table set up with paper, cars and paint.  It was sooooo tempting, but alas, not for them, and the were incredibly good at being ushered past it and out the door.  I promised that we could paint with cars when we got home.  So, we did!  

We started with paint on a tray, cars, and paper on the low kid table.

Delia soon forayed into hand-printing & finger-painting.

They quickly used the paint up from the tray, so we grabbed some paper and made some prints with the last bit.  They enjoyed pressing down the paper and peeling it up to see the paint transferred to the paper.   

I then just squirted paint right onto the paper and let them have at it! 

After some painting, they were noting how dirty the cars were getting.  So, I got out a tub of water and some scrubbers for a "car wash".  There was lots of washing, drying, and then re-driving the (still soggy) cars back on the paper for awhile...

But then Delia starting doing some gravity research with her cars, and soon the drying rags were in the water and all over the floor.  Oh, the puddles!  Water is fun, and very wet.

Floor washing ensued.  

And finally -- at my suggestion and encouragement, admittedly -- they finished up by drying the floor.  They are pretty good at it, since they often have to clean up all their spilled milk and juice, as well.  Ha!  

 Project done, and kitchen now cleaner than before!  Hooray!

It's February in Seattle, and the winter dreariness is upon us.  Though I like the idea of getting the kids outside in nature in all sorts of weather in theory, personally, that is a really hard thing for me to do.  I know that once we do it more often, we'll sort out the right kind of gear we need (rain pants, anyone?) and get more used to braving the elements, and I KNOW we would all feel better if we did it...  

But.  It's cold!  And WET!  And grey.  And I'm lazy....  Bleh!

So, here are a few things we like to do -- indoors -- this time of year.  I know we are blessed to be living in a very kid-friendly city, with a lot of good options.  I also know that with multiples -- especially newly mobile toddlers  --- any outing is a huge undertaking and sometimes a leap of faith.  It's worth it, though, and does get easier with practice!  I forget when we started going to some of these places, age-wise, though I know it was rare I made it out much before Elsie and Delia were about 9 months or so. 

 Free is a very good price: 

• Library storytime.  Or, more often, just visiting the children's section of the local library, which has puzzles and stuffed animals, as well as plenty of books to read and check out.  
• Also, bookstore storytime, and just going there (for us, the local B&N) anytime to read books and play with their train set and other toys in the children's section.
• Visiting local toystores. This is AWESOME for us right now -- so much to play with, totally free, and we are often the only ones around on
  weekday AMs! This might be too challenging with multiple young toddlers until they will reliably listen to you about pulling tons of things off the shelves (for us, around 2 years old or so).  So far my kids don't whine about buying stuff, because it's just not on their radar that it's an option!
• Our REI has a fun kids climbing structure -- perhaps because it's the flagship store? In any case, it's free and awesome, and right next to a good lunch place for us, which is an ideal combo.
• The mall -- I am not generally a mall person, but during the day when its not crowded its a good outing. Play area, food court, riding the elevators, etc. I still take a stroller but at this age I can let them out to run for a bit sometimes, too.
• IKEA! -- Stroller for a lot of it, mini carts if you are feeling brave!  I let them out of the stroller in the kids section to play, and then do lunch in the cafe. Once they are potty trained we will definitely be trying out the kids area with free childcare (if they like it, I may bring my laptop and hang out in the cafe, ha ha)!   

• Open gym drop-in sessions at local kid's gyms (during the day when school is in session its almost all toddlers/preschoolers & less crazy. For southend Seattlites, the Jungle Gym is our closest and favorite, though I've also heard good things about Seattle Gymnastics Academy and I know there are others, too!
• Toddler gyms at community centers -- these are hugely popular around here, and soooooo great. Basically a gym full of toddler toys, balls, bikes, and sometimes bouncy houses, for a few bucks a kid  Totally contained. This was the first play-type outing I started doing when I had three kids under 4, and it was a great way to gain some confidence (for me) and burn off energy (for them. And me!). 
• Bouncy house places -- this sounds nuts but my girls loved them from before they learned to walk!   These are big warehouses filled with bouncy houses to enjoy.  There are several of them I haven't tried around here, but the one we love up north has specific baby/toddler inflatables that not crowded at all (neither are the rest of them on weekdays,  and grownups can play them too!).  
• Play cafes (coffeeshops with kid toys/play areas). These range in greatness, from so-so to amazing.  Some are free, some are donation-based, some cost to play (but sometimes that buys you a nicer space).  Great place to meet up with other parents if you don't feel like hosting a playdate.  

Museums and Tourist Attractions

• The zoo or aquarium -- our zoo has an indoor playground with an infant/toddler section as well so thats good even during bad weather. I've just recently heard our aquarium has toddler play days with special activities geared for younger kids, so we might check that out next... 
• Children's museums -- costs money like the zoo, but great for rainy days and a membership is totally worth it.  The Seattle Children's Museum has a contained baby area that was key for awhile there.  I know of four others within driving distance of Seattle, too (Olympia, Bainbridge Island, Everett, and Bellevue). 
• Seattle also has the Museum of Flight, which we haven't utilized all that much (my girls interest is so-so) but I know some families love! 
• Local tourist attractions -- recently I took my girls to the Space Needle, when we realized the museum we were intending to go to was insanely crowded.  We all had a great time -- and it was really empty on a weekday morning in winter!  

Try Public Transit (best @ 2 years plus, I think!)

• Take the bus.  This is definitely for the brave -- at least at first! -- or when you have a second adult with you when you are outnumbered by wee ones. I survived a too-long bus ride downtown by myself with all three girls about a year ago, but can't say I'd recommend it solo with that young of toddler twins! Shorter trips would be awesome, though, especially if there is a good destination location (the library, etc) and now, at ages 2.5 and 4.5, I think we could handle the 40 min trip downtown no problem....
• We've had great luck with riding light rail trains (some which you can take a stroller on easily).
• Around here, ferry rides are awesome, even in the rain!  Another adventure that I prefer to have two adults for, though I may try it solo soon. 
• Another Seattle special -- the monorail -- short and sweet, and very easy on and off.  

• Yeah, playgroups. I know this kind of thing is not everyone's cup of tea, but I really enjoy them!  I am part of three groups that do regular or occasional playgroups (twins club, AP group, and mainstream parenting group from when Emma was a baby) and those were and still are fun for and manageable for us, as there are lots of other parents around willing to help out, the homes are generally baby-proofed, and novelty of different toys totally engages my kids.  Check local parenting forums or email lists, and possibly online sites like Meetup.com to find others with interests or locations similar to yours...   

What have I missed? Where do you go when the weather gets dreary to burn off some steam?

Emma dancing to Bob Marley (yes, she chose to do this over cupcake eating!),

Elsie with blue frosting, Delia with pink.  

Last night I got three hours of sleep, thanks to a combo of a late night (my fault), insomnia (rare for me) and a sick feverish kid flopping around beside me (as usual she was thrilled to be with us but Could. Not. Sleep. in our bed and eagerly went back to hers eventually).  The day could have gone really poorly due to the circumstances, but it was actually pretty great.  Emma went to school full day (a rare treat) and had a fabulous time. Delia is the sick one today, and she was really dragging but rallied off and on, especially around dinnertime and right after (dancing a bunch too) thanks to fever meds.  

I know, cupcakes are not the best food for sick kids, but we don't always follow the rules around here! Thanks to my cousin Sarah for the delicious fancy cupcakes (and sorry TT for missing your birthday playdate!).  Oddly, my kids decided dancing was more fun than cupcake eating, so they mostly just had a bit of the frosting and are saving the rest for tomorrow! 

I was recently asked on a parenting forum I frequent to elaborate on what it is like nursing twins beyond a year.  This mama was starting to have trouble tandem nursing her older babies -- due to them being grabby and active -- and was looking for advice, both on how nursing older twins worked and when and how weaning might occur.  Here is my response, edited slightly. I was the only one -- I think? -- on this forum still nursing older twin toddlers...

------- 

Okay, I'll chime in as the mama-still-tandem-nursing-2.5-year-olds.  Ha!  Thanks for the compliments on our nursing picture! 

For us, nursing is still awesome, and I am so glad we made it through the early challenges and are still at it.  I vaguely have three years old as weaning time, so we'll see this spring.  We could do it at any time and it wouldn't be too traumatic -- I don't see them as dependent on nursing at this point at all -- but since we are all still enjoying it and its a great parenting tool for me, we keep on for now. 

For me, a key to toddler nursing is setting limits and making that the norm.  As the owner of the boobs, I call the shots (this is obviously different than when they are infants!).  My girls learned pretty early on -- well before a year old -- that we almost never nurse outside of our house (unless we are away on a long trip, are in a private spot, or they are really hurt) because it was just not comfortable or feasible for me to do so.  Also at home, they don't always get to nurse when they ask -- we are not on a "on demand" system now.  We have some set times we generally do (wake up, mid-morning sometimes, before nap, after nap sometimes, and when I am putting them to bed).  If they ask and I don't want to, or it's outside of those times, I usually say "you can nurse at X time, but not now" and then offer cuddles or a snack or drink.  Sometimes I also put limits on how long we nurse -- telling them it will be a "quick nurse" (like a minute or two) or making them stop a the count of ten other times when then have been nursing awhile and I am ready to be done.  They rarely protest, and often stop at 2 or 3 in the counting -- giggling because they were "so fast". 

I am not sure what we've done to make tandem nursing work, other than always stuffing a blanket between them when they are nursing in the tandem football hold with the pillow so they don't "bonk" each other (yes, we STILL use this position and the pillow at naptime, since they fall asleep then and I can still heft them in this position across the room into their beds!) and not just not allowing them to bother each other. Honestly, if one of them is too squirmy or acrobatic, is are not "staying on her side" or is touching and annoying her sister, she has to stop and get down.  End of story.  The threat of having to stop nursing keeps them in line pretty much all the time.  They love to nurse and are usually totally sweet with each other during this cuddle time.  

For us for a long time now (perhaps always?), nursing has been more about comfort and connection than nutrition, so that plays into it as well.  My supply has never been good -- now, I think it's pretty slim.  We had to supplement from the very beginning, and they've always been good solids eaters --probably because that's been their main calorie source.  They never had (or would take) pacifiers and didn't have bottles past about 10 months, so this is the way they meet their sucking needs.  I also feel like it's such an easy way to bond with them and calm them both, together at the same time.  If they are fighting/biting/hurt/whatever, nursing can turn that around, and I feel really lucky to have that tool still with this crazy busy toddler stage. For me tandem nursing is the only way I've ever seen it working for us -- nursing them separately takes so much more time and rarely are my girls up for waiting their turn (though they do understand that concept, and respect it, especially if one of them is hurt).  

Hope some of this helps or at least clarifies what our nursing looks like right now.  Good luck on figuring it all out for you little ones!  There are so many ways to do it, especially with twins...

 
Goofing around with Mama on the nursing pillow around age 2

    

   

   

   

Delia in green helmet, Elsie in pink helmet, Emma in blue dress

Linking up this week with other Wordless Wednesdays at Natural Parents Network and Hobo Mama

Whoa, today was one of those days.  It started early, too early, which is probably the source of a lot of it.  The combo of a late night for me, a sick-ish kid, three super early-risers and general cabin fever was not a good one.  Emma didn't get to go to school, the kids were bickering and annoying each other like crazy (to the point of actual violence), and even though I was trying to keep on top of things there was a lot of drama and emotion going on.  I managed to keep my cool, most of the time, surprisingly enough (this is not always the case, let me tell you!). But it was exhausting!  

While I feel like I am absolutely still in progress with all of this, here are a few things that sometimes (sometimes!) help us get through the rough patches.  Some are more for the kids, some more for me, but since I am the weather these things often benefit us all.  Some take only a few minutes, but really help my mindset.  Sometimes, nothing works all that well, but at least we tried!   

• Let go of expectations (mainly, what I plan to get done & how I intend this day will go)
• Get out of the house, go to the park, the store, anywhere!
• Find something to all do together
• Or quiet time apart!
• Connect with one kid while the others watch TV
• Let them all watch TV for a little bit.  We all need a break!
• Nurse the nurslings
• Read stories & cuddle
• Play outside
• Be silly!  Laugh.
• Get the kids into the bath
• Go downstairs/upstairs/change locations
• Get out a new toy or activity (not necessarily new, but something that hasn't been out lately)
• Feed the kids a snack, or make snack the main meal
• Turn on feel-good music 
• Early naps or bedtime! Sometimes we just need this! 
• Eat a healthy snack or meal if I have not lately.
• Make bread (in the bread machine, not by hand, though I am sure that's great too!).  This is just a quick thing makes me feel really productive, so I feel better!
• Quickly (quickly!) clear the main rooms of toy clutter  and dishes, wipe down the counters, whatever.  Again with the productiveness. And making our home calm, I guess. 
• Then sit down with tea, chocolate, wine, or all three!

Enjoying rare sunshine in January.  Why not bust out the water play? 

Monday: Chicken teriyaki meatballs (pre-made from Costco) with sautéed onions, bell peppers, and pineapple over whole wheat spaghetti.  

Tuesday:  Pork tacos in corn shells with cheese or "sour supreme" (dairy-free sour cream), tomatoes, avocado & lettuce, plus leftovers & fruit to round out the little ones meal.

Wednesday: TVP Mushroom Lasagna (w/dairy-free béchamel sauce instead of cheese, and yes, it tastes great!)  A combo of this recipe plus a really great one from  Recipes for Dairy-Free Living (p 80).  

Thursday:  Curried chicken pasta salad (served warm) with white rolls and steamed greens

Friday: Simple baked fish & home fries, tomato/basil salad

Saturday: Slow cooker white beans with sage & garlic, with brown rice & broccoli

Sunday: Chicken veggie soup with orzo, whole wheat bread, applesauce

Snacks this week hopefully invigorated with selections from this great snack list from Code Name: Mama, including homemade Lara bars and energy balls! Yum!

Monday: Crock pot lentil stew and brown rice (all from freezer), green salad

Tuesday:  "Swimming Rama" (chicken & spinich over whole wheat pasta with peanut sauce), leftover veggies

Wednesday:  Pork spare ribs (not sure yet on a recipe), crusty bread OR home fries, glazed carrot coins 

Thursday: Shrimp fajitas (shrimp, onions, red/yellow/orange peppers, avocado, sour cream, flour tortillas), fruit salad

Friday:   Salmon Burgers (from Costco) on homemade bread machine rolls, steamed green beans

Saturday:  Homemade pizza?  Leftovers?  

Sunday:  Chicken jambalaya (Lonnie's specialty), steamed chard/kale

And here are a couple food related pictures from ONE YEAR AGO.  Wow, time flies! 

Over the Thanksgiving holiday I got another chance to paw around in my parents attic, an endless source of both of goodies from my childhood and things from her old preschool (yeah, Pumpkin Shell Preschool class of 1982!!!!).  There are SO many great things up there, many which I have already taken (like the great set of wooden blocks and the wooden play kitchen that resides in our living room).  I know how lucky I am to have this great source of playthings for my girls!   

On this visit, I grabbed a bunch of new stuff, some that we gave  them as Christmas presents, or tucked away for later use.  One thing we decided to hold off on giving until after the holiday insanity was this big tub of unifix cubes.  Ah yes, the lovely, brightly colored, deliciously plastic-smelling math manipulatives of our childhoods! Great for working on one-to-one correspondence, patterning, counting tens, measuring small (or big) objects, and much more.  These days I think most schools have moved on to "snap cubes", which are a bit harder to stick together, but have a lot more options since they can connect in all directions (and not fall apart quite as easily). But Unifix cubes were the way it all started, and I hold a special place in my ex-student/teacher heart for them... 

 

   

After a nice wash in the sink with some soapy water to get off 20+ years of grime, they were good as new.  I brought them out one morning this week and the girls had a lot of fun with them!  Emma immediately started making patterns with hers, and then worked a long time making long towers of single colors to measure a poster she had out.   Eventually, she had her dolls playing with them, too.  

 

Elsie and Delia were also intrigued, and they worked on towers for awhile before the tactile joy of all these cubes got the better of them and they decided too climb up on the table and dive on in!  They were pretending the table was their bed, and the cubes were their "blankets".   Later on the cubes became "candy" and that was lots of fun, as well.  Our Pottery Barn play table is GREAT for this, as it has a lip around the edge that keeps them (mostly) on the table and not on the floor!

Anyone else out there use and enjoy unifix cubes?  How do your kids play and learn with them?

As a footnote, I will add that because the aforementioned plastic smell is really noticeable, I wrote to the company (Didax.com) asking about BPA/phalates in Unifix cubes and received this reply "There are no phalates/BPA or latex in the Unifix cubes.  They are, and have always been, made of pure polyethylene." 

Posted last night about our tree block project and then noticed I somehow deleted a big section of the text, gah!  So I took it down, and will try to rewrite and post it later today.  If you read the messed up version last night or early this AM, check back soon for the missing info, including links and more specifics!

After last year's successful joint project making handmade wooden people for the girls for Christmas, Lonnie and I knew we wanted to make more gifts this year.  One simple idea we grabbed from Teacher Tom's Blog: Tree Blocks.  

   

I had watched with interest Teacher Tom's various explorations with "tree parts", including this stacking one on pegs, that looks super cool but didn't go over as well with his preschoolers as he had expected.  I've always longed for these wooden tree blocks you can purchase, but spending money on simple cut, sanded wood seems a bit much, especially given our wealth of regular blocks! 

So, after showing Lonnie some pictures, he grabbed some wood (cherry from a tree we cut down years ago, rock maple and mystery wood from my parents place) and started sawing.  He used a Japanese-style pull saw for the little ones and an old-fashioned bow saw for the larger ones (yes, he's a tool geek as well as a computer geek).   He made a wide range of sizes, from small ones fit in your hand to big chunks of log for larger construction. Free is a very good price!

I have seen them treated with a wax finish to seal them up and make a nice shine (which is tempting! I am a sucker for beeswax!) but we opted for au natural.  Some have cracked a bit as they have dried indoors, but nothing that compromises the fun.  

I figured we'd have the most luck with blocks that were mostly playable freeform, combined with animals, people, and dolls  -- what our girls gravitate towards most often.  I hoped (and was correct) that they would pair well with some of the other things we were making for the girls, too -- tie dyed play-silks and little handmade fairy dolls (more coming soon on those!).  

 
 
  
I will admit to being the one to build this one, not the kids!  Though Elsie had a fun time playing with it and dropping things into the "hammock"...

So far (as I expected, given Teacher Tom's results) the tree blocks have been greeted with curiosity and some independent play, but are not something the girls take out and really get into on their own.  If I start setting them up or playing around with them, they do jump in and play with them too!  I think the larger ones are a bit big and heavy for them to manipulate easily, at least indoors (looking forward to taking them outside when the spring and summer).  When they are up on the play table and pushed down for a crash, for example, it's kinda scary -- these are heavy logs falling!  I've had to make a few rules about not crashing them when others are there, or how to crash them without injuring themselves in the process.  With the smaller pieces, I'm not worried, though!  

We have some plans to drill some holes in the sides of the larger blocks so the girls can poke things into them for "decoration" or to create fancier fairy homes -- things like pegs (perhaps to create tents or platforms for the fairy houses), feathers, glittery leaves and flowers (from the craft store floral aisle), and the like.  I have a feeling this will add some instant intrigue for them....stay tuned for pics when we finally get around to it!